I only learned recently that a lot of programmers can't work a computer or server at all, they literally can only program

@sun literally me

@sun
how that's possible? if can't even run things you write

@ageha a shocking numjber of developers cannot even deploy the code they write

@Hyperhidrosis @sun surprisingly i have "fixed" windows more than once despite not using the OS at all. maybe linux conditions u to some analytical thinking standard users dont need

@piggo @Hyperhidrosis I argued the other day that a little mental friction teaches users to think for themselves which makes them better at everything, and everybody disagreed with me. I was right

@sun @ageha time for vibe deployment

@sun @piggo professor taught me, a good software design includes taking as much of the mental load off of the user as possible. They should just know what to do which is why a lot of websites are minimal.

This is also why applications like fl studio, photoshop, etc have classes people take to learn instead of exploring for themselves.

@Hyperhidrosis @piggo realistically complex software can't just not have a learning curve. at any rate I admit that my opinion is heterodox but Im sticking to it

@sun @piggo @Hyperhidrosis you're using ai tools to make those pixel fish aren't you

@Maou @piggo @Hyperhidrosis yes

@sun @ageha literally me also 😍

trying to figure out how to deploy my shi on the web rn.

@sun @piggo you're right about developers needing critical thinking and computer literacy but for everyone else they can't be bothered learning more than necessary.

@Hyperhidrosis @piggo yes I consider this learned helplessness

@sun @piggo @Hyperhidrosis nice

@rain @piggo @sun This but the opposite
learned I'm retarded

@sun there is some relatively tech illiterate programmers and I don't get it

@sun As far I'm aware it's been like that since I did my training 20 years ago.

@coolboymew @sun 20 years ago the dude that suddenly replaced my superior who had been absent for 18 months was absolutely illiterate about administration and hardware diagnosis/maintenance, maybe because he just had his diploma like a week ago and all he did was theory and not a work-study training like I did.
He gave me one hell of a last 3 months.
Ok programmer tho. Only could do dotnet but it fixed some issues with the shitty software we had.

@sun this is something i also realised by working in IT.

In the floss world we see people write and maintain code, and somehow we consider everything that goes with it developer work.

But then you get at a job where everyone is a professional, and suddenly the people who manage the issues aren't developers, they are product owners. The people who analyse how the features should look aren't developers, they are analysts. The people who setup the servers and software on those servers aren't developers, they are system administrators. And there's even a difference in those managing the servers and those managing the databases, the latter are DBA's. Thinking about what technology to use, how to get everything to interact, define good practices, not developers, they are architects. Support is provided by support staff, and often there's two or three levels of them. Even for testing the software there's testers, not developers. Thinking about how well a software is to work with, not developers, it's UX-designers. And there's a bunch of other roles too.

And even within their own field, they sometimes seem to only know enough to get a CRUD application working using an IDE, rather than actually understanding the tech they work with.

It's honestly baffling how much the people who do stuff in floss are going way and beyond what would be reasonable in a professional setting, but it's all taken for granted here.

@rain @piggo @Hyperhidrosis @sun God I love wolfram alpha, I probably wouldn't have graduated college without it

@sun During my first tech job, I've had someone telling me straight up that they do NOT want to learn anything outside of their programming language. Not that they do not want to be given tasks outside of their job position, but that they refuse to bother with anything that isn't programming. It was also the kind of person who would get complain that you can't drag and drop PHP projects on some servers like in the good ol days.
Last time I checked what they're up to, they're linkedinmaxxing by making blog posts like "What is NPM?" Which feel like they've been written by a junior who got given this question as an assignment with only 2 hours to write it. And yes, this person is supposed to be having 5 times more experience than I in tech

@sun It's genuinely horrifying

@piggo @Hyperhidrosis @sun Most people don't have basic problem-solving and troubleshooting skills at all so any who does is like a repair wizard to them

@sun Isn't that like a car mechanic who can't drive?

@echo @sun It's like a car mechanic that can only change the oil.